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jseligeronAug 31, 2012

The really distressing thing about this article is the way it ignores the vast anti-PhD literature out there; perhaps the best, which I've linked to before on HN, is Philip Greenspun's "Women in Science": http://philip.greenspun.com/careers/women-in-science . Lametti nods at opportunity costs, but he doesn't discuss them in sufficient detail to be convincing.

EDIT: BTW, a friend and I also wrote a longish essay about how to think about science from the perspective of undergrads trying to get in: http://jseliger.wordpress.com/2012/04/17/how-to-think-about-... , but we included a section about the anti-science-lifestyle literature.

jseligeronApr 18, 2012

I obviously don't know your background, but a statement like this: "If one were truly amazed by science, nothing would be in ones way to becoming a scientist" expresses the kind of sureness in the motivational power of joy and wonder that one I mostly hear from non-scientists (or non-literary people: replace "science" with "literature" and you'll get something similar).

The ones I know who are actually grad students or professors tend to take a much more pragmatic view.

I wrote this in another thread: "'Science is a wonderful thing if one does not have to earn one's living at it.' -- Albert Einstein" -- from Philip Greenspun's Women In Science: http://philip.greenspun.com/careers/women-in-science .

japhyronNov 22, 2017

My son is 6 now, and he has loved these two books since he was about 3:

The Boy Who Loved Math: The Improbable Life of Paul Erdos
- https://www.amazon.com/Boy-Who-Loved-Math-Improbable/dp/1596...

Bedtime Math: A Fun Excuse to Stay Up Late
- https://www.amazon.com/Bedtime-Math-Excuse-Stay-Late/dp/1250...

We also started this book recently, and he has really enjoyed it so far:

Women in Science: 50 Fearless Pioneers Who Changed the World
- https://www.amazon.com/Women-Science-Fearless-Pioneers-Chang...

jseligeronApr 17, 2009

Philip Greenspun wrote a piece called "Women in Science" about this issue, which is at http://philip.greenspun.com/careers/women-in-science . I think the emphasis on "women" is wrongheaded, especially since the majority of Ph.D.s in many humanities subjects—including English—go to women these days, but the essay is worth reading as long as you can ignore the sexism and pay attention to the discussion of incentives.

jseligeronFeb 27, 2012

After reading this I really wonder if what was missing was context and world experience.

"'Science is a wonderful thing if one does not have to earn one's living at it.' -- Albert Einstein" -- from Philip Greenspun's Women In Science: http://philip.greenspun.com/careers/women-in-science .

I would guess the Apple VP has enough money to never have to worry about money, which probably makes the grad school experience quite different than yours.

euroclydononNov 4, 2013

Or the opposite of your conclusion:
Women in Science:
http://philip.greenspun.com/careers/women-in-science

jseligeronJune 15, 2010

I saw this on /. earlier and wrote:

Anyone interested in this subject should read Philip Greenspun's essay Women in Science: http://philip.greenspun.com/careers/women-in-science. Ignore the borderline sexist stuff about women and pay attention to his comments about the structure of science in the United States and the opportunity costs of pursuing a career in science.

<p>As he observes: "Adjusted for IQ, quantitative skills, and working hours, jobs in science are the lowest paid in the United States." And he's right. And then people wonder why more Americans don't go into science.

jseligeronMay 5, 2010

Philip Greenspun explains this pretty well in "Women in Science:" http://philip.greenspun.com/careers/women-in-science . Ignore the borderline sexist comments about women and pay attention to his explanation of the structure of academia.

The big problem is opportunity cost: if you're a top-nerd American, you can probably make a relatively large amount of money right out of school as a hacker, engineer, consultant, and so forth. Why, then, go to grad school, get paid relatively little, toil for a job that might not exist, and deal with the uncertainties of academia? On the other hand, if you come from a developing country, grad school stipends can seem relatively large, your home labor market for advanced grads might be saturated, and an American PhD might be the key to advancement.

jseligeronJuly 8, 2012

I've posted this before and will post it again: any discussion like this should include a link to Philip Greenspun's "Women in Science": http://philip.greenspun.com/careers/women-in-science . Ignore the borderline sexist stuff about women and pay attention to the institutional structure of science and the opportunity costs of potential scientists.

Stuff like this: "Although the overall unemployment rate of chemists and other scientists is much lower than the national average, those figures mask an open secret: Many scientists work outside their chosen field" should demonstrate why the smartest or most economically aware people who are interested in science might want to think about ancillary fields (like hacking).

I've also co-written a longish guide for undergrads interested in science: http://jseliger.wordpress.com/2012/04/17/how-to-think-about-... , since many of them don't fully understand how science really works in an institutional setting.

giardinionJune 21, 2009

See "Career Guide for Engineers and Computer Scientists" by Philip Greenspun at

http://philip.greenspun.com/careers/

Also read "Women in Science" by Philip Greenspun at

http://philip.greenspun.com/careers/women-in-science

The latter isn't limited to women's careers; in it Greenspun discusses working in science with an advanced degree.

jseligeronSep 16, 2013

For whatever it's worth, as someone who just finished, you're doing a PhD for all of the right reasons.

That's true. I think it's telling, however, that the writer doesn't mention getting an academic job, or tenure. I hope his PhD works out for him and his family, who are implicitly along for the ride.

I also hope that, in three to four years, the OP writes an essay about what he thinks after he's gone through the academic grinder.

For an alternate perspective on academia, see Philip Greenspun's "Women in Science" (http://philip.greenspun.com/careers/women-in-science).

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