HackerNews Readings
40,000 HackerNews book recommendations identified using NLP and deep learning

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arethuzaonJan 14, 2020

Carl Sagan's excellent The Demon-Haunted World includes a "Baloney detection kit":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Demon-Haunted_World

davedxonMay 12, 2020

The Magus, John Fowles

Dune (all 6)

Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, Robert M. Pirsig

Manufacturing Consent

The Demon-Haunted World, Carl Sagan

If This Is a Man, Primo Levi

Light, M. John Harrison

mangamadaiyanonAug 8, 2016

The Demon Haunted World, by Carl Sagan.

It showed me that the questions I'd always had were real, and finally let me break free :)

unaloneonJan 3, 2009

What is the Demon-Haunted World about? I've always loved this essay, but I don't know anything else about Carl Sagan.

nollidgeonJuly 30, 2010

This sounds like skepticism. Carl Sagan's "The Demon-Haunted World" is similar in nature, though hardly systematic. James "The Amazing" Randi has also written a handful of books aimed at debunking some of the more prominent results of irrational thinking (homeopathy, astrology, etc.)

technothrasheronAug 30, 2019

And for a decent introduction to critical thinking in general, I can highly recommend Carl Sagan's book, "The Demon-Haunted World".

Among many other good things in this book, there is a chapter called “The Fine Art of Baloney Detection,” which is the best primer in detecting bad thinking I've seen.

asaphonNov 2, 2019

If only everyone read Carl Sagan's The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark[0], or at least the Baloney Detection Kit part.

[0] https://www.amazon.com/Demon-Haunted-World-Science-Candle-Da...

dragandjonJuly 28, 2020

You can use the famous Carl Sagan book The Demon Haunting World instead. Voja's book was inspired by it and covers the same topics in similar manner.

TillEonOct 19, 2015

Indeed. From Carl Sagan's wonderful The Demon-Haunted World:

"They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown."

GualdrapoonDec 24, 2020

I grew up studying in a catholic school. Once a teacher that was involved with the convent, teaching us some logic basics, gave us some copies from the chapter 2 of Carl Sagan's The Demon-Haunted World as a recommended lecture. Could get the whole book and read it and ended becoming an atheist.

Taylor_ODonMar 2, 2021

I read Carl Sagan's, "The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark" and it really nailed home how many issues are caused by a fundamental lack of understanding and belief in science. It's a great short read.

karolisdonApr 27, 2011

His book "The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark" is a must read. It's the best advocate for critical thinking.

xutopiaonJan 26, 2018

The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark by Carl Sagan. It helped me be have more cohesion in my thinking in regards to my love for science and my very religious upbringing.

lbrandyonMay 25, 2008

> I'd prefer things not directly technical though not necessarily fiction.

Sounds exactly like me. I strongly suggest:

1. The Selfish Gene (Richard Dawkins)

2. The Demon-Haunted World (Carl Sagan)

...or if you need a little inspiration...

3. Founders at Work

AntiImperialistonDec 13, 2020

Maybe you tried it when it was down?

I put "The Selfish Gene" and "The Demon-Haunted World" and I got "Women, Race and Class" by Angela Davis and "The Feynman Lectures".

arethuzaonAug 25, 2010

It doesn't sound corny at all - it really is an extremely good wee book. I occasionally like to debate with people what five books we think everyone should read by the time they leave school - The Demon Haunted World is on my list.

satori99onSep 13, 2018

For me it was Carl Sagan's The Demon Haunted World.

I was not especially religious, or especially anything until that book convinced me that skepticism was a useful default setting.

HNLurker2onMar 15, 2019

>bad rebirth

Carl Sagan Dragon fallacy (1) reincarnation may be as real as not existing. Buddhism was mainly a way to solve India caste problem.

(1) Carl Sagan, The Demon Haunted World

xutopiaonSep 2, 2017

The Demon Haunted World by Carl Sagan. I come from a very religious background and it helped shape my way of thinking around superstitious thoughts of all kinds.

pklausleronOct 18, 2016

I am fond of Carl Sagan's "The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark".

idleworxonDec 26, 2012

I'm going to add mine for 2012 too
Carl Sagan's "The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark"

http://www.amazon.com/The-Demon-Haunted-World-Science-Candle...

hnhgonNov 9, 2009

This is from his book, 'The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark'.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Demon-Haunted_World
I love this book for explaining in simple human terms why we need science so much.

hownottowriteonApr 4, 2015

Your Inner Fish by Neil Shubin

Dust by Joseph Amato

The Demon-Haunted World by Carl Sagan

Physics of the Future by Michio Kaku

Most collections by Stephen Jay Gould (though I like "I Have Landed")

OscarTheGrinchonJan 20, 2019

He he, had to look up "5G conspiracy", I hadn't gone down that intellectual black hole before.
https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/evmzv7/alt-right-...

For anyone interested in a sympathetic approach to debunking fraudulent belief systems I recommend Carl Sagan's excellent book: The Demon Haunted World. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Demon-Haunted_World

dysfunctiononMar 26, 2015

The Demon-Haunted World was incredibly formative for me, and I was around 14 when I first read it. Prior to reading it, I believed wholeheartedly that UFOs were alien spaceships, and despite already being fairly certain I was an atheist, I was still on the fence about ghosts. The most important thing about that book was that it didn't teach me that things I believed weren't true because a distinguished scientist said so; rather it taught me how to decide whether the things I believed were likely to be true, and how to examine why I believed them.

Of course I didn't immediately transform into a perfect 14-year-old skeptic by reading this book (I'm twice that age now and I'm sure I still believe all manner of things that aren't true), but this was the first time I truly realized that I even needed to be skeptical about what I believed.

the__alchemistonJune 1, 2021

> What a scientist needs are precise measurements from multiple viewpoints provided by devices that register various wavelengths (visual, infrared, radar).

Fighter jets (Like the Navy HUD showed in the article?) have radars, targeting pods with high zoom, IR, TV, and laser-range-detectors, and fly in formation. These radars show the altitude and airspeed of anything they pick up. They also are always recording displays that would save this information.

My building's concierge loves talking about UFOs. I try to steer him towards articles etc on the latest exobiology info. Real stuff can capture that desire for something exotic just as well. Carl Sagan's The Demon-Haunted World is a great read for the psychology and history behind the UFO phenomenon.

felipelemosonFeb 5, 2019

The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark, by Carl Sagan.

It changed the way I see the world, how to have a sceptical mind and not only how but why one should question.

And also, it shows to me that, if you don't have a answer for something, doesn't mean that it can not be true. It's just that you don't know. And for a lot of things, this is the correct and only answer that we can have now.

xutopiaonFeb 5, 2019

My top books:

- The Demon Haunted World by Carl Sagan - It gave me the tools required to cut through bullshit and helped me free myself from the shackles of a religious upbringing

- The Selfish Gene by Richard Dawkins - Gave me the courage to look at things differently when everyone thinks we know it all

- Zero to One by Peter Thiel - It made me question what I was doing professionally and I now have a list of questions to answer whenever I am in a startup to help guide me

- Compersion by Hypatia From Space - It help remove limits to how I can love and care for the people that are important to me.

BeetleBonAug 7, 2020

> Are they minorities though? I think current anti-science stances are far more widespread than your post seems to give credit for.

It is all speculation until we have real hard numbers. It's easy to argue in both directions.

People believed all kinds of conspiracies when I was a kid. And people still do. The only difference is that it's more visible now. In the pre-WWW days you'd only hear it if you were in the room with them. Now you can see it even if they said it days ago.

Carl Sagan wrote The Demon Haunted World in the 90's, and it is mostly about exactly this: Whereas science had made tremendous progress in his life, the attitudes and crazy beliefs people have had not shifted much. The whole book is a lament about this, and a certain amount of bitterness on this being the case despite him spending most of his life promoting science.

Probably the only real thing that has changed is the role and type of media people consume. In the 80's if a whole bunch of people believed something that was clearly wrong, and were geographically spread out, they didn't have an easy means to make that an issue for elections. You would need to form a lobby group which takes time and money. The newspapers usually did not entertain them.

Now you don't need newspapers and news channels to get your message out. You have Twitter, Youtube, Facebook, etc. The cost to organize and spread your message is much lower. So tiny fringe groups have the potential to be much more influential. The politicians can now exploit that.

pjscottonJuly 30, 2010

Now there's an interesting question: how can you teach some low-hanging fruit of rationality to someone with maybe half an hour to spare? The best attempt at this I've seen is Carl Sagan's article "The Fine Art of Boloney Detection", from his book The Demon-Haunted World. Sagan was an engaging writer, and does a good job making it easy to understand. I found a copy here:

http://dannybhoy1.tripod.com/baloney.htm

It would be even better if we had effective sound bites. I suppose we have "Correlation does not equal causation", which rhymes nicely, but too many people think it means that correlation isn't evidence for causation, which is wrong. I guess this is a problem with soundbites in general.

notsureaboutpgonFeb 15, 2021

>A good book to read on this is Carl Sagan's "The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark". A significant portion of the book is devoted to what Sagan calls a "Baloney detection kit" that he thinks everyone should have.

That sounds exactly like a religious self-help book if you just replace "Science" and "Baloney" with "Christianity" and "Falsehood"

lolcat5eonFeb 10, 2019

I'm reading 'The Demon Haunted World' at the moment - "Finding the occasional straw of truth awash in a great ocean of confusion and bamboozle requires vigilance, dedication and courage. But if we don’t practise these tough habits of thought, we cannot hope to solve the truly serious problems that face us and we risk becoming a nation of suckers, a world of suckers, up for grabs by the next charlatan who saunters along." From 1997. Very prescient. We've a mountain of suckers... a Suckerberg.

dghfonApr 9, 2015

Robert Shea & Robert Anton Wilson, Illuminatus!

Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World.

Daniel Dennett, Consciousness Explained.

T.H. White, The Once and Future King.

George Orwell, Homage to Catalonia.

crazydoggersonMay 15, 2021

All the comments here simply show the very poor state of science education.

Everyone should read this book and then reevaluate comments about chiropractors.

The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark

https://www.amazon.com/dp/0345409469/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awdb_imm...

And I’m not throwing shade. It’s not any single persons fault or a comment on character. I really do believe there’s a systemic problem with our education system. The reason chiropracty causes this to stand out is that it very successfully flaunts the scientific method and is still accepted at large (for reasons I won’t start going into, but most of which are covered in the book)

jv22222onAug 29, 2020

Nandor Ludvig follow up comment:

> I did watch this presentation for an hour -- but it was so painful for me to experience this scene of incompetence and mockery of neuroscience getting worldwide attention simply because of Musk's money (while true scientists lose their jobs because of the lack of NIH or NSF grants for their quality research) that I add some sentences here and just leave. They did not show how their robot-controlled microelectrodes actually penetrate into the cortex and find cells -- because, as every single-cell recording expert knows, this is the difficulty: not just to move each microelectrode close enough to the targeted neuron but to make sure they can be kept there for long periods while not damaging the cell either. To do this, as claimed by Musk with 1,000 microelectrodes within an hour with "surgery without anesthesia", in the pulsing brain with no neurosurgeon present is not just impossible but even its proposal is an outright embarrassment for people with more education than the Twitter-audience encouraged to send their questions. Enough. Carl Sagan's prophetic 1996 book "The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark" predicted an America sinking in "superstition and darkness". This time has arrived. -- ---Nandor Ludvig, MD, PhD

I must say, it does feel like history repeating itself. It seems that anyone who is an expert in a field that Musk enters ALWAYS bets against Musk.

And then, in the fullness of time, they are often proven to be wrong because Musk finds another way they couldn't imagine - probably because he works as a multi domain expert and from a viewpoint of first priciples.

It will be interesting to see if that is how this one plays out.

belornonJune 11, 2019

Mocking implies that the purpose was to make Muslim people feel bad, and I don't think that is the case. I see it in the context of works like The Demon-Haunted World by Carl Sagan (1995), The Meaning of Life (1983) by Monthy Python, The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins (2006), and South park episode Trapped in the Closet (2006). The point is to illustrate and highlight the superstitious believes of religion in the context of existing culture that gives it enormous power and influence.

Among those four, two use comedy as the medium. Three of them has been banned in various countries. The only exception is the south park episode and I suspect the only reason is because scientology is not the majority religion in any country or state.

gdubsonJan 17, 2021

“I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time -- when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers are in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness...”

Carl Sagan, The Demon Haunted World, 1995.

I’ve had this quote in mind at many points this year. The refusal to wear masks, the inability to agree on basic facts, the wildfire spread of misinformation and conspiracy theories.

IMHO the only way out of this hole is by doubling down on critical thinking education. Education that focuses not just on skills for a labor market, but skills for thinking. Being able to separate fact from fiction, ‘feels from reals’.

An aside: I’ve often felt that writing longhand on paper produces a different result than typing. Something about the deliberate pace. Technology has given us awesome powers, and the ability to blast out our stream of consciousness at hyper speed. We would do well to slow down a little, reflect more, try to fully grasp issues and consider the sources and validity of things before we share them out.

But above all, we need to find our way back to truth through science - not just what feels good, but what we can sort out through the full power of our mental abilities.

wunderlustonMay 12, 2020

I don't think any book has had an immediately noticeable effect, but looking back to books I read years ago I can to some degree tell which ones are still resonating.

The Demon Haunted World (Carl Sagan) — although I was already a skeptical thinker, this book opened me up to how critical thinking can enhance your spiritual side as well as your intellectual side.

Godel, Escher, Bach (Douglas Hofstadter) — this book added color to a lot my intuitions about the deeper connections of patterns we see throughout reality.

Truth & Power (Michel Foucault) — I'm not a fan of most so-called continental philosophy, but Foucault's ideas about cultural structures has always stuck with me.

The Allegory of the Cave (Plato; section in The Republic) — classic; some might say the basic idea underpinning all philosophical and scientific inquiry.

Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus (Ludwig Wittgenstein) — I'll admit I never quite understood this book from reading it, but it definitely changed how I thought about philosophy, consciousness and spirituality.

Charles Sanders Peirce essays — it's been a long time, so I don't remember the specific texts, but he did fascinating work in semiotics. One essay in particular was critical in how I think about communication and consciousness.

Fact, Fiction, Forecast (Nelson Goodman) — Goodman is brilliant and is great at relaying philosophical problems as puzzles. He's a great writer and turns the problem of induction on its head in this one.

Foucault's Pendulum (Umberto Eco) — I don't read a lot of fiction, but this book is amazing. There's a lot of history, so you may need to keep an encyclopedia nearby, but this one will really get you thinking about how the autonomy of memes. Probably quite relevant at the moment.

Any number of books and essays by great analytic philosophers: Saul Kripke, W.V.O. Quine, Bertrand Russell, Karl Popper, Carl Hempel, John Campbell, David Chalmers, Thomas Nagel, Hilary Putnam, Jerry Fodor, Dan Dennett, David Lewis, etc.

arethuzaonJuly 16, 2020

"The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark" by Carl Sagan

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Demon-Haunted_World

Also around the age of 8 or 9 I read some Erich von Däniken book and got quite excited by what it contained. However, I eventually realised that it was complete nonsense and I got really affronted that people could write books that contained stuff that wasn't true. A useful lesson!

Edit: Another one is "Why People Believe Weird Things":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_People_Believe_Weird_Thing...

arethuzaonMay 22, 2010

If anyone finds that list disturbing then they really need to get out more.

Personally, I find what people capable of in our darker moments disturbing, but science is essentially the antidote for that. Sagan's "The Demon-Haunted World" being strongly recommended:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Demon-Haunted_World

the__alchemistonJune 20, 2021

Carl Sagan wrote a book based on this premise: The Demon-Haunted World.

TillEonJan 17, 2015

This is probably the most important point I remember from "The Demon-Haunted World", in which Carl Sagan repeatedly demonstrates that human memory is completely unreliable, and that false memories can even be accidentally created by a therapist. People who say they've been abducted by aliens usually aren't lying; they genuinely believe it.

iN7h33nDonApr 9, 2015

Audiobooks I have Read Recently: (Sanderson is Awesome)

  * The Reckoners #1/#2
* Stormlight Archive #1/#2
* Mistborn #1/#2/#3
* Ghost in the Wires: My Adventures As the World's Most Wanted Hacker

Digital Books:

  * How to Win Friends and Influence People
* Malazon Book #1
* The Forever War
* The Martian

Things on my List:

  * Think and Grow Rich
* Watership Down
* Rainbows End
* Snow Crash
* What is Zen
* Wool: Silo
* Founders at Work
* Light Bringer
* Hyperion
* The War of Art
* Atlas Shrugged
* The Demon Haunted World
* Code: The Hidden Language of Computer Hardware and Software
* Joe Abercrombie's books
* Rich Dad Poor Dad
* Founders at Work
* Fear the Sky
* Daemon -- EDIT ADDED


Things I recommend:

  * All of Brandon Sanderson's Books
* The Kingkiller Chronicles
* How to Win Friends and Influence People
* Issac Asimov's short stories and Foundation series
* The Forever War
* Gentleman Bastards
* Ready Player One
* The Martian
* A Wizard of Earthsea

EDIT:
Short Reading I Recommend:

  * http://www.multivax.com/last_question.html

arethuzaonMar 26, 2015

Carl Sagan's "The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Demon-Haunted_World

Also perhaps Bill Bryon's "A Short History of Nearly Everything" for an entertaining broad view of a variety of scientific areas:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Short_History_of_Nearly_Every...

tsallyonJan 3, 2009

I was assigned to read this book in AP Psychology in high school. Discovering Carl Sagen alone made that class worth it. I now own quite a few of his works and would highly recomend all of them to anyone. The Demon-Haunted World should be required reading, regardless of whether you agree with his viewpoints. Each chapter is a starting point for a powerful, exciting intellectual discussion.

belornonDec 3, 2017

"I find many adults are put off when young children pose scientific questions. Why is the Moon round? the children ask. Why is grass green? What is a dream? How deep can you dig a hole? When is the world’s birthday? Why do we have toes? Too many teachers and parents answer with irritation or ridicule, or quickly move on to something else: ‘What did you expect the Moon to be, square?’ Children soon recognize that somehow this kind of question annoys the grown-ups. A few more experiences like it, and another child has been lost to science. Why adults should pretend to omniscience before 6-year-olds, I can’t for the life of me understand. What’s wrong with admitting that we don’t know something? " - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World

carapaceonJan 7, 2020

> Many religions believe in intelligent literal demons assigned to individuals to deceive them. Seems to me we are busy inventing a real version of that.

The Daemon-haunted World.

(In case it's not clear, I'm playing off the title of Carl Sagan's book "The Demon-Haunted World". We haven't fully exorcised "real" demons from our world yet here we are developing artificial ones, eh?)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Demon-Haunted_World

> The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark is a 1995 book by astrophysicist Carl Sagan, in which the author aims to explain the scientific method to laypeople, and to encourage people to learn critical and skeptical thinking. He explains methods to help distinguish between ideas that are considered valid science and those that can be considered pseudoscience. Sagan states that when new ideas are offered for consideration, they should be tested by means of skeptical thinking and should stand up to rigorous questioning.

hypertextheroonJan 17, 2018

Recommended reading: The Demon-Haunted World by Carl Sagan.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/17349.The_Demon_Haunted_...

belochonFeb 14, 2021

Real science is not without it's problems but, in general, nothing comes close to it for producing trustworthy and useful results.

There is plenty of pseudoscience masquerading as science unfortunately. A good book to read on this is Carl Sagan's "The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark". A significant portion of the book is devoted to what Sagan calls a "Baloney detection kit" that he thinks everyone should have. If more people could accurately distinguish science from pseudoscience, the world might be a better place.

My personal pick for pseudoscience that is routinely given credence by the general public is nutritional studies. Any study that says an oddly specific food (e.g. blueberries) is a "superfood" is probably baloney. Producers of that food probably got together and funded a study that, surprise, says what they produce is good to eat! Why aren't other berries just as good? What about berries vs other fruit? What is in blueberries that is not present in other berries?

The thing about nutritional studies is that they're so hard to do properly that virtually nobody does. If you wanted to find out which foods are genuinely healthy you'd need a large sample size of people willing to have their diets and activities micro-managed in a way that would make most people rebel. You could probably do a decent study if you had enough money, but nobody is willing to foot the bill. The only people with skin in the game (e.g. blueberry producers) have no interest in a study that puts blueberries fairly in their place amongst a plethora of other foods.

My crazy prediction is that, sometime in the next century or two, we're actually going to become interested enough in optimizing healthy bodies that governments will start funding real scientific studies on nutrition, exercise, etc.. The crap that's out there today is going to be seen as utter quackery, albeit with some nuggets of truth mixed in almost by random chance.

ctackonMay 7, 2020

I read the Demon Haunted World by mistake a long time ago and it really challenged my belief system at the time. But then little by little it won me over.

Not without damage in the form of missed education opportunities, I managed to overcome a lot of the bullshit magical thinking that had managed to cloud my thoughts in my teens and early 20s.

It's interesting to me, just today I've been respectfully challenging a friend for their belief in some or other Covid conspiracy. After some introspection, I realised that the ire this raised in me and which I was directing at my friend, was actually anger at my young self for the years "lost" in the form of education not pursued.

What a day.

leifonAug 8, 2009

1. Candide

2. The last few chapters of GEB

3. Regardless of whether you're a programmer, anything by Carl Sagan. The Demon-Haunted World and Dragons of Eden are my favorites.

YeGoblynQueenneonFeb 27, 2019

Regarding "the need for countries to project power"- I was recently reading Carl Sagan's The Demon-Haunted World. I quote from chapter 16 "When scientists know sin":

From my point of view, the consequences of global nuclear war
became much more dangerous with the invention of the hydrogen
bomb, because airbursts of thermonuclear weapons are much
more capable of burning cities, generating vast amounts of smoke,
cooling and darkening the Earth, and inducing global-scale
nuclear winter. This was perhaps the most controversial scientific
debate I've been involved in (from about 1983-90). Much of the
debate was politically driven. The strategic implications of nuclear
winter were disquieting to those wedded to a policy of massive
retaliation to deter a nuclear attack, or to those wishing to
preserve the option of a massive first strike. In either case, the
environmental consequences work [to] the self-destruction of any
nation launching large numbers of thermonuclear weapons even
with no retaliation from the adversary. A major segment of the
strategic policy of decades, and the reason for accumulating tens
of thousands of nuclear weapons, suddenly became much less
credible.

This "need to project power" is just another way to say we're too goddamn stupid to use the technology we create without blowing ourselves, and everyone else, up with it. Democracy has nothing to do with it. Raw, unmitigated human stupidity dominates military decisions in every country.

arethuzaonJuly 5, 2018

Frederick Douglass is mentioned in Sagan's superb "The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark":

"Frederick Douglass taught that literacy is the path from slavery to freedom. There are many kinds of slavery and many kinds of freedom. But reading is still the path."

Also, perhaps my favourite part describing the reaction to a speech by Douglass:

"His very appearance and demeanour destroyed the then-
prevalent myth of the 'natural servility' of African-Americans. By all accounts his eloquent analysis of the evils of slavery was one of the most brilliant debuts in American oratorical history.

William Lloyd Garrison, the leading abolitionist of the day, sat in the front row. When Douglass finished his speech. Garrison rose, turned to the stunned audience, and challenged them with a shouted question:

'Have we been listening to a thing, a chattel personal, or a man?'

'A man! A man!' the audience roared back as one voice.

'Shall such a man be held a slave in a Christian land?' called out Garrison.

'No! No!' shouted the audience.

And even louder, Garrison asked: 'Shall such a man ever be
sent back to bondage from the free soil of Old Massachusetts?'
And now the crowd was on its feet, crying out 'No! No! No!'

He never did return to slavery."

DoveonOct 16, 2010

Well, ontological arguments are ancient and always seem like cheating. I am not a fan of them myself. But as I understand things, Plantinga's contribution is to formulate the ancient argument more rigorously. Even he does not claim the argument proves God exists -- only that it demonstrates God is either impossible or necessary. (Nor do I claim to agree with him on that point.) Particularly interestingly, the bit I presume you object to (though "facepalm" is admittedly a bit of an ambiguous criticism), that the possibility results in a necessity, is not the bit philosophers find objectionable.

If you wanted to really grapple with the argument as a means of growing your mind, not just satirize it without understanding what's going on, you should probably start with a more neutral summary of the state of things. Like this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anselms_argument#Plantinga.27s_...

Honestly, though, that's not the one I would have picked to pursue. I think that particular contribution of his is a minor thing, only interesting to professional philosophers in the first place. I had in mind something more major, like his notion of Warrented Belief. Or perhaps something amusing, like his evolutionary argument against naturalism.

But look, taking someone's weakest work, saying "Huh?", and satirizing it may feel good, but it's not a valid way to grow intellectually. Back when I was a creationist, if someone had said to me, "Look, you really ought to read The Demon-Haunted World -- even if you don't agree, it'll expose you to a totally new way of thinking about things," and instead of reading it, I went and found someone on a creationist website who made fun of some obscure little passage without really understanding it? I wouldn't gain anything by the experience.

Grapple with the original and the strongest form, or don't bother. Don't fool yourself.

[Edit: If you're looking for something meaty of Plantinga's to read, try this: http://philofreligion.homestead.com/files/alspaper.htm . It's entertaining and friendly, and you'll probably learn something.]

apricotonMar 29, 2015

In first place, and it's not even close:
Martin Gardner's Scientific American columns. I can't believe they haven't been mentioned yet. They're (slowly) being reprinted by Cambridge, or you can buy a CD with all of them.

Now the rest.

One lesser-known book that made a deep impression on me: A.K. Dewdney's "The Planiverse", a kind of Flatland-meets-the-MIT-hackers story. How would architecture, biology, and chemistry work in a 2-dimensional world?

Sagan's "The Demon-Haunted World" was an important book for me, but I read it when I was a couple years older than 14.

SICP, if the 14-year-old knows basic programming and has written a few 1000-line programs. I wouldn't have understood it at 14 but enjoyed it tremendously at 18.

csnoveronNov 7, 2020

Yes. Probably the worst thing about this election for me is that it seems to demonstrate conclusively that 2016 was no aberration, no temporary mass hysteria, no failed experiment in electing a political outsider to “drain the swamp”. This distorted world view of us-vs-them tribalism seems to have totally consumed our political system. Objective reality is dismissed by the majority of the population—most blatantly on the right, but also, increasingly, on the left. Even more shocking to me, highly regarded election data scientists have twice now somehow been blinded to this, releasing poll after poll that fail to capture what is actually happening in the minds of the electorate.

Carl Sagan, in his 1995 book ‘The Demon-Haunted World’, wrote:

> I have a foreboding of an America in my children’s or grandchildren’s time — when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers are in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what’s true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.

The moment he prophesied now appears to be upon us. I don’t know how we can restore this country to one where people mostly act in good faith and try to base decisions in science and fact. I see so many incredibly compassionate people supporting the most despicable politicians. Right-wingers on Twitter repeating false talking points that the left are trying to destroy the country while tweeting about how proud they are of local youth offering free lawn care to disabled and senior citizens. Left-wingers openly insulting rural and conservative people as the scum of the earth while relentlessly supporting policies intended to improve those same peoples’ lives. How does this happen? What do we have to do—as individuals, as nations, as humans—to get it to stop?

apoonJan 16, 2019

The title's use of "Harvard" is interesting in that it hints at appeal to authority.

Imagine that the astronomer were based at Lackawanna College. Would that information be worth conveying through the title?

"Lackawanna College Astronomer on the Interstellar Object ‘Oumuamua"

I doubt it. The problem with appeal to authority is that there's no place in science for it. Not only that, appeal to authority undermines science itself.

As Carl Sagan put it in The Demon-Haunted World:

Arguments from authority carry little weight – authorities have made mistakes in the past. They will do so again in the future. Perhaps a better way to say it is that in science there are no authorities; at most, there are experts.

https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/535475-arguments-from-autho...

hypertextheroonFeb 25, 2018

> Education on the value of free speech and the other freedoms reserved by the Bill of Rights, about what happens when you don’t have them, and about how to exercise and protect them, should be an essential prerequisite for being an American citizen—or indeed a citizen of any nation, the more so to the degree that such rights remain unprotected. If we can’t think for ourselves, if we’re unwilling to question authority, then we’re just putty in the hands of those in power. But if the citizens are educated and form their own opinions, then those in power work for us. In every country, we should be teaching our children the scientific method and the reasons for a Bill of Rights. With it comes a certain decency, humility and community spirit. In the demon-haunted world that we inhabit by virtue of being human, this may be all that stands between us and the enveloping darkness.

—Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World, Science as a Candle in the Dark

jasimonMar 2, 2019

Seven Brief Lessons on Physics by Carlo Rovelli.

Ultimate Questions by Bryan Magee (more philosophy of knowledge than science per se).

The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark by Carl Sagan.

The Ascent of Man by Jacob Bronowski are not essays, but it is one of the finest writings on science I've read.

The Art of Doing Science and Engineering by Richard W. Hamming

Letters to a Young Scientist by Edward O. Wilson

I can't not help mention The Baroque Cycle by Neal Stephenson, which is fiction, but hear me out - it melds natural philosophy, alchemy, maths, history, Newton, Leibniz, The Sun King, British parliament, colonialism, slavery, Egypt, India, war, finance, commerce, revenge, satire and so much more. I've learnt more about the origins of the Royal Society and the early days of modern science from these three books than anywhere else.

mshonJan 20, 2015

Carl Sagan makes that comparison in his book "the demon haunted world".

MarcScottonJan 13, 2021

The Demon Haunted World by Carl Sagan delves into this quite a bit. It's years since I read it, but he talks about how in history people often suffered hallucinations and mass hallucinations that had a religious theme. They were visited by angels, demons, witches etc. In the 50s when Hollywood started churning out Sci-fi movies, the nature of these hallucinations altered and became all about UFOs.

caiobegottionAug 20, 2020

These days the language of science in popular media always remind me of Carl Sagan's The Demon-Haunted World with science as a candle in the dark and while corpora analysis is cool to create a bunch of word stats I believe modern science (supported by the recent steady lack of change in its language as shown in one of the article graphs) has inherently a problem of discourse and not of words to be clearer to the layperson. Discourse in the storytelling sense that appeal to their specific audience, but also not like those flourish articles that start like a romance which are pretty preposterous. In that way, perhaps, dunno, it's impossible to have a language of science that is efficient today while at the same time trying to appeal to everybody as it would be impossible to have an universal discourse that appeals equally to a person on minimum wage and a trader with a nice suit... in the end any universal language of science no matter how well its words are selected will fail, due to bad discourse IMHO.

robbieponSep 23, 2018

Carl Segan at the end of The Demon haunted World talks extensively about this mechanistic worldview, where animals were once thought of as clockwork.

I’d just note that your comment reads a bit like I endorse this view - whereas the intention of my post was to refute it. Perhaps you meant to reply to my parent?

pdkl95onNov 21, 2016

Sagan's warning in "The Demon-Haunted World"[1]:

    I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time --
when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all
the manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome
technological powers are in the hands of a very few, and no one representing
the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the
ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority;
when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our
critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good
and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition
and darkness...

Until the public has a "baloney detection kit"[2] (and uses it regularly), trying to convince them to follow "The Truth" instead of the latest scam or wishful thinking is a waste of time.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Demon-Haunted_World

[2] https://www.brainpickings.org/2014/01/03/baloney-detection-k...

hammmattonJuly 6, 2011

I'm not the brightest guy in the world. But I can tell you that human companionship often comes in forms that you do not expect.

I wouldn't look only for technical people to talk to and hang out with. While I'm sure that shared interest can create a strong bond between you, there is more to life and the soul than computers.

I'd like to recommend three books to you that really changed my perspective on how to deal with people. Arguably any value I have in communicating with people comes from the lessons of, or derived from using, these books.

1) Life Would Be Easier if it Weren't for Other People
2) How to Succeed With Women
3) The Demon Haunted World, Science as a Candle in the Dark

The first is the most important, how you convey yourself to others and how they convey themselves to you. However, the book focuses on the dysfunctional aspects of communication. This book has made my more worth living in every single way.

2) How to Succeed with Women. You didn't mention whether or not you have a girlfriend. This of this like Cosmo with useful advice for me. Basically, it is how women look at dating and how men often don't even come close to thinking about what they want.

3) Just a great book on human nature.

Good luck buddy. Got carried away.

rosseronAug 30, 2019

It's interesting to note that some time after writing this, Sagan became aware of the work of Jim Tucker, at the University of Virginia, attempting to validate the "past life" reports of children who've offered verifiable details in their accounts. Many children make such claims, but, as Sagan observed, “Young children sometimes report details of a previous life, which upon checking turn out to be accurate and which they could not have known about in any other way than reincarnation.”

I won't assert the truth of it, and I can think of a couple plausible vectors that don't involve consciousness surviving death and into another body (however unlikely they might be), but if it's compelling enough for the author of The Demon Haunted World to suggest it deserves "serious study", I'm the last person in the world to gainsay him.

abdullahkhalidsonJune 19, 2020

> In the way that scepticism is sometimes applied to issues of public concern, there is a tendency to belittle, to condescend, to ignore the fact that, deluded or not, supporters of superstition and pseudoscience are human beings with real feelings, who, like the sceptics, are trying to figure out how the world works and what our role in it might be. Their motives are in many cases consonant with science. If their culture has not given them all the tools they need to pursue this great quest, let us temper our criticism with kindness. None of us comes fully equipped.

> And yet, the chief deficiency I see in the sceptical movement is in its polarization: Us v. Them - the sense that we have a monopoly on the truth; that those other people who believe in all these stupid doctrines are morons; that if you're sensible, you'll listen to us; and if not, you're beyond redemption. This is unconstructive. It does not get the message across. It condemns the sceptics to permanent minority status; whereas, a compassionate approach that from the beginning acknowledges the human roots of pseudoscience and superstition might be much more widely accepted.

Selected quotes from The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark by Carl Sagan

satori99onAug 25, 2010

The Demon Haunted World - Carl Sagan.

Corny as it sounds,, that book changed my way of thinking and indeed my life when I was around 18yo.

mhartlonSep 28, 2009

That's why I have serious respect for anybody that makes it work more than once, those are the real entrepreneurs. For the rest it really is mostly luck.

I agree with your suspicion that luck is often involved. But twice- or even thrice-successful entrepreneurs might also be lucky as well as good. I think an anecdote about the great physicist Enrico Fermi is in order:

My [Carl Sagan's] favorite example [of the non sequitur fallacy] is this story, told about the Italian physicist Enrico Fermi, newly arrived on American shores, enlisted in the Manhattan nuclear weapons Project, and brought face-to-face in the middle of World War II with U.S. flag officers: So-and-so is a great general, he was told. What is the definition of a great general? Fermi characteristically asked. I guess it's a general who's won many consecutive battles. How many? After some back and forth, they settled on five. What fraction of American generals are great? After some more back and forth, they settled on a few percent. But imagine, Fermi rejoined, that there is no such thing as a great general, that all armies are equally matched, and that winning battles is purely a matter of chance. Then the chance of winning one battle of one out of two, or 1/2; two battles 1/4, three, 1/8, four 1/16, and five consecutive battles 1/32 -- which is about 3 percent. You would expect a few percent of American generals to win five consecutive battles --- purely by chance. Now, has any of them won ten consecutive battles...?

(From The Demon-Haunted World by Carl Sagan; http://tinyurl.com/yeprpx4)

belornonDec 3, 2019

Carl Sagan wrote in his book The Demon-Haunted World about a kind of intellectual laziness.

"instead of judging people on their individual merits and deficits, we concentrate on one or two bits of information about them, and then place them in a small number of previously constructed pigeonholes. This saves the trouble of thinking, at the price in many cases of committing a profound injustice. It also shields the stereotyper from contact with the enormous variety of people, the multiplicity of ways of being human"

He talked about the issue of stereotyping in science and the harm this caused his field, but it can really be seen as an insight in why people so easy start to do it once the culture makes it acceptable. It is easier. It does save the trouble of thinking. Looking at people as individuals is hard, takes energy and is prone to come back and bite you. Much easier to just reduce people to single bits of information and follow what ever the cultural accepted stereotyping (ie discrimination) that the environment allow.

pdkl95onJuly 2, 2017

> ways for the common person to verify info

If that could be done automatically, we could skip a lot of time consuming, expensive research. Church and Turing already proved there are no general solutions to the Entscheidungsproblem.

On the other hand, if you were thinking of some sort of service that provides "authoritative" verification, you've only moved the problem. The service can be faked (or corrupted) just as easily. Similarly, we already have many historical examples where restraints on media are (de facto) used against political enemies.

What we need is a way to educate people with the scientific method and just enough logic to implement it practically. Sagan discussed this problem in "The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark", which I regularly recommend to anybody that seems to need his "Baloney Detection Kit"[1].

[1] https://www.brainpickings.org/2014/01/03/baloney-detection-k...

carapaceonMar 6, 2021

> With speech interfaces and internet of things gadgets, we're moving closer to building ourselves a demon-haunted world.

I call it the daemon-haunted world.

(The reference is to Sagan's book "The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark".)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Demon-Haunted_World

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daemon_(computing)

BartweissonApr 23, 2018

> I think that any sort of "standardized" education should include at least a class worth of teaching on how to interpret statistics.

This is sort of a fantasy of mine - having every public school teach a brief course on "not getting tricked".

In my fantasy world, it's a several-week guide to common ways people lie and mislead the public. One section is on interpreting statistics. Another is probably on comparing scientific papers to the news stories they spawn. Another on 'paltering' and all the things a given statement doesn't say. The 'fun' section covers cold reads, famous hoaxes, and a general sense of how to not end up believing in every silly story you hear. You could use The Demon Haunted World as a readable source textbook for a lot of it.

It's a pipe dream, of course. You'd need teachers who could teach it, which is a tall order to begin with, and then you'd need to find a way to give out examples without offending half the parents in the school when every examples (astrology, crystal healing, and so on) is going to cross somebody.

But damn, even if it didn't take completely, wouldn't it be nice to at least have a shared framework to talk about this stuff?

belornonFeb 23, 2020

Carl Sagan described it best in his book The Demon-Haunted World. Reducing people down to a few single bits of information is lazy thinking. It shields the stereotyper from contact with the enourmos variety of individuals, the multiplicity of ways of being human. Even if it discrimination were valid on the average, it is bound to fail in many individual cases.

Profound injustice in favor of averages is not an acceptable social trade off. This is why countries enact general discrimination laws, making it illegal to judge people based on single bits like gender and race.

saganusonMay 1, 2014

Carl Sagan wrote about this in The Demon-Haunted World I believe. I recall him talking how in the middle ages, before any UFOs or alien concepts came to be, people saw witches, demons, succubi, etc. Then the "scientific era" came to be and people started to see more "aseptic" images, i.e. aliens wearing lab coats, or other "science-y" stuff.

When I read it, it made a lot of sense. It is quite obvious if you look into it, that people's hallucinations or visions are strongly correlated with their current culture or world view. So you if you see something inexplicable, you are going to call it a ghost for example, but a medieval knight will call it a demon, but maybe someone from 2100 will call it a perturbation of the higgs-field or whatever makes sense then.

Quite interesting effect actually.

mathattackonApr 9, 2015

If I can jump in... I'm a third of the way through Hyperion, and it's very interesting. It's Science Fiction that causes one to think.

Atlas Shrugged is an important intellectual work whether you agree with the philosophy or not. It's a long slog, but worth reading to understand the people who follow it. It will just take a long long time. I read it when I was doing regular coast to coast flights.

The Demon Haunted World is vintage Sagan. Very well worth readying, though as an HN member it's probably preaching to the choir.

GlennSonMay 2, 2019

I feel like a lot of the people commenting on this thread would really benefit from reading The Demon-Haunted World by Carl Sagan (who was himself once a UFO believer).

He has a really good section on UFO sightings, which he compares to stories about abduction by demons from Medieval times.

His main explanation for the increase in UFO stories in the second half of the 20th century is the decline in other forms of abduction myths, like the demon one. People report seeing what they're expecting to see based on the stories they've been exposed to.

The massive increase in aircraft obviously helped too.

yongjikonSep 9, 2017

From "The Demon-Haunted World" by Carl Sagan:

> It is claimed by apologists for the Reagan administration that, whatever the exaggerations in capability, some of it intentional, SDI was responsible for the collapse of the Soviet Union. There is no serious evidence in support of this contention. Andrei Sakharov, Yevgeny Velikhov, Roald Sagdeev, and other scientists who advised President Mikhail Gorbachev made it clear that if the United States really went ahead with a Star Wars programme, the safest and cheapest Soviet response would be merely to augment its existing arsenal of nuclear weapons and delivery systems. In this way Star Wars could have increased, not decreased, the peril of thermonuclear war. At any rate, Soviet expenditures on space-based defences against American nuclear missiles were comparatively paltry, hardly of a magnitude to trigger a collapse of the Soviet economy. The fall of the USSR has much more to do with the failure of the command economy, growing awareness of the standard of living in the west, widespread disaffection from a moribund Communist ideology, and - although he did not intend such an
outcome - Gorbachev's promotion of glasnost, or openness.
Ten thousand American scientists and engineers publicly
pledged they would not work on Star Wars or accept money from the SDI organization. This provides an example of widespread and courageous non-cooperation by scientists (at some conceivable personal cost) with a democratic government that had, temporarily at least, lost its way.

* I know Sagan isn't exactly a historian, but I'll choose his assessment of space war technology over other people's.

the_afonJune 13, 2016

> it seems like there's always a hint of paranoia to those things.

If you mean the reading list the parent post mentioned, I must disagree. Carl Sagan's books are about scientific divulgation. In fact, "The Demon Haunted World" isn't about conspiracy theories but about the scientific method and how it differs from pseudoscience, and how to avoid falling prey to tempting but irrational ideas (what he calls "The baloney detection kit"). The other book by Sagan is likewise about science, not about persecution or being "an outlier".

Noam Chomsky's book is different. Of course, writings about the control of the media by the few and the manipulation of public opinion can, when looked through the warped lens of someone with a persecution complex, look like confirmation that "they" are after you. But Chomsky isn't paranoid, he is political.

I'm less familiar with the rest of the books, but at a quick glance they don't seem to have a hint of paranoia to me.

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