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jholmanonMay 3, 2020

Agreed. Elements of Style is full of errors, some of which are so obviously wrong that even its own authors don't follow them.

zombieprocessesonMar 5, 2018

Parsimony. Cut out the fat. Read Elements of Style for tips.

Also, read more and write more. You can only get better by doing more.

unaloneonFeb 19, 2009

Is it similar to Elements of Style in its focus? (That book, of course, had the most perfect phrasing: "Omit needless words.")

dangoldinonJune 12, 2008

Good ideas but a lot of them seem to be rooted in "Elements of Style" by Strunk.

Reading that short book has significantly improved the way I write.

ericbonMar 19, 2008

Good writing and good code are similar:

Elements of Style: Omit Needless Words

Pragmatic Programmer's Guide: Don't Repeat Yourself

xtacyonApr 5, 2011

One of the most cited books for better writing: Elements of Style: http://www.bartleby.com/141/. It's available for free.

There are many "manuals of style" available as well like: http://www.chicagomanualofstyle.org/home.html.

leggomylibroonDec 8, 2017

Elements of Style is very good. It can be a little prescriptive, but it's only 50-odd pages long and surprisingly fun to read.

0s30s1sonDec 3, 2010

Elements of Style is full of little nuggets of good writing. Start a blog/journal to continuously practice the techniques in the book

ams6110onSep 14, 2010

To quote Elements of Style, vigorous writing is concise. Clutter it up with a bunch of qualifiers and it becomes tedious to the reader and the point you're trying to make gets muted.

jcranmeronMay 28, 2019

Don't feel too bad, most people can't detect passive voice correctly. Hell, Strunk's Elements of Style, when discussing the avoidance of passive voice, has four examples of clunky writing that can be rewritten to use the active voice, except three of them are already in active voice.

ncmncmonSep 10, 2019

It is quite remarkable how people continue to believe what their elementary teacher told them, even after years and years' experience to the contrary.

In English, people believe that "Elements of Style" is full of good advice despite everything good they have ever read violating every rule on every page.

runawaybottleonMay 28, 2020

I’d be wary just from the fact someone tried to piggy back off the authoritative work of Elements of Style.

ar-janonMay 28, 2015

It's a little sad to keep seeing such approving references to Strunk & White's Elements of Style. To see why, read Pullum's The Land of the Free and The Elements of Style.

http://ling.ed.ac.uk/~gpullum/LandOfTheFree.pdf

criddellonMay 31, 2019

If you've read Steven Pinker's book Sense of Style, I'd be interested to hear where it falls short in comparison to Elements of Style.

qaexlonDec 23, 2008

Elements of Style teaches you how to write clearly and concisely. It doesn't teach you how to write a novel.

mikro2ndonOct 2, 2013

"Elements of Style", in Principles of Composition #17: "Omit needless words".

seanconMay 6, 2021

For a more direct presentation of these ideas, see Elements of Style by Strunk and White:

http://www.jlakes.org/ch/web/The-elements-of-style.pdf

lsd5youonOct 12, 2009

Elements of Style, is well written and thoughtful, but it should not be taken as an prescriptive authority - as it commonly is - on grammatical minutiae. Or in other words Strunk & White, a.k.a Drunken Shite (only when discussing grammar rules!!).

cpetersoonJune 11, 2013

btw, Elements of Style is a very short book (~26 pages) and early editions are available online:

https://courses.washington.edu/b572/public/StrunkWhite.pdf

mkr-hnonNov 25, 2012

The Elements of Style is to K&R what The Voynich Manuscript is to On the Origin of Species. Elements of Style is good to read to see one person's ideas on style from a century ago, but it's not a guide to writing.

If you have a need for guidelines but don't want to develop your own, many major publications publish style books. For example: The Associated Press Stylebook, The Chicago Manual of Style. APA and MLA work too.

leggomylibroonOct 29, 2017

This sort of advice seems way more practical than the kind you get from books like Elements of Style.

Sure, there are all kinds of books about how to write. But they're usually structured like, you know, books. I think a sort of bullet-point list in under 50 pages probably is a better way to get these kinds of points across.

kqr2onDec 18, 2009

The author of this essay is also the co-author of The Cambridge Grammar of the English Language

http://www.cambridge.org/uk/linguistics/cgel/

Unfortunately, the author doesn't recommend a good alternative to Strunk & White's Elements of Style.

TomteonApr 2, 2021

> Strunk and White’s Elements of Style, which is essentially the lifeblood of any editor.

Highly contentious.

My opinion: read Williams' "Style: Towards Clarity and Grace" and then Gopen's "The Sense of Structure" instead.

byoung2onSep 16, 2020

Here is the 3 step method to improving your writing:

  1. Get a book called Elements of Style by Strunk and White. 
2. Internalize the rules in that book and apply them whenever you write.
3. Write as much as you can, and read even more.

Source: I studied English in college

dnh44onDec 31, 2019

I've read Elements of Style but not this one. I'll check it out thanks.

ncmncmonDec 7, 2018

He should have said about the thesaurus: it's only for reminders -- don't use a word from it you would not have used; your readers probably won't know it either.

And, "Elements of Style" is a manual on how to lose confidence in your writing. Read Geoff Pullum's essay on what he calls "the nasty book": "The land of the free and The Elements of Style", http://ling.ed.ac.uk/~gpullum/LandOfTheFree.pdf

ams6110onAug 7, 2017

My 10th grade English teacher was a big proponent of Strunk and White's Elements of Style. He encouraged and rewarded straightforward writing. He was one of the top two or three teachers that I ever had.

mattgrattonJuly 7, 2010

Elements of Style by Strunk and White

If you want to learn copywriting, there's a correspondence course from AWAI that's pretty useful. I learned some things when I took it. (It's sold in a very "yellow highlighter/red underline/internet marketing" way, but it's very valuable.)

CapitalistCartronJune 25, 2020

Strunk and White's Elements of Style is trash; don't buy it, don't read it, don't follow its advice. Read this first:

http://www.lel.ed.ac.uk/~gpullum/LandOfTheFree.html

shillonFeb 20, 2013

"Vigorous writing is concise. A sentence should contain no unnecessary words, a paragraph no unnecessary sentences, for the same reason that a drawing should have no unnecessary lines and a machine no unnecessary parts. This requires not that the writer make all his sentences short, or that he avoid all detail and treat his subjects only in outline, but that every word tell."

--William Strunk Jr., Elements of Style

chatmastaonSep 10, 2016

On Writing Well and Elements of Style were required reading in almost every English class I took. Sounds like you had some bad teachers.

xiuyuanonFeb 15, 2018

You might find this interesting regarding Elements of Style: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/201...

The original article it quotes can be found here: www.lel.ed.ac.uk/~gpullum/LandOfTheFree.pdf

It's quite heavy criticism of Elements of Style from the Professor of General Linguistics at the University of Edinburgh.

ams6110onJan 30, 2018

Parallels Strunk & White's Elements of Style. Who knew there was so much similarity between writing code and writing prose?

Omit needless words.

Write in a way that comes easily and naturally to you, using words and phrases that come readily to hand.

It is always a good idea to reread your writing later and ruthlessly delete the excess.

Avoid the elaborate, the pretentious, the coy, and the cute. Do not be tempted by a twenty-dollar word when there is a ten-center handy, ready and able.

unravelleronSep 17, 2020

The Third Edition of Elements of Style (1979) is the most faithful to Strunk's great rhythm and style:

>Vigorous writing is concise. A sentence should contain no unnecessary words, a paragraph no unnecessary sentences, for the same reason that a drawing should have no unnecessary lines and a machine no unnecessary parts. This requires not that the writer make all his sentences short, or that he avoid all detail and treat his subjects only in outline, but that every word tell.

By the fourth edition (1999) mother modernity knows best. A crock of editors resort to neutering his rules to skirt around them easier, sacrificing all rhythm and possessive clarity:

>This requires not that the writer make all sentences short or avoid all detail and treat subjects only in outline, but that every word tell.

ALeeonApr 22, 2009

I would recommend Strunk and White's Elements of Style to help. This post was essentially that with a little hastiness for the reader built in. -A

VeenonMay 31, 2019

Elements of Style is the one that falls short. Pinker’s book is based on an understanding of how grammar actually works. Strunk and White is not.

qodeninjaonOct 30, 2014

There are the people who make technology, and then there are those who write about it. I've rarely seen both in one person, as each side requires a level of focus and dedication that would do the other side an injustice.

HN in my perspective, is mostly a PR site for technologists trying to push their brand/personality with some bigger agenda.

I've seen a lot of people develop their brand/persona on HN and blogs before trying to push out some tech company. 3 such people come to mind.

To be fair, I'm probably no different, except that I dont post here (yet) -- just consume and opinionate.

So consider the context.

If you really want to be good at writing the best way is to practice. A blog is a great way to get in the habit of writing.

I would also refer you to some well known books like the de facto standard for "good" English composition used by PR's and news organizations: The Elements of Style (http://goo.gl/SPcAOF <== amazon link with my referrer tag)

Like anything they key to becoming "good" is time, focus and dedication -- obviously.

In any case, consider the context of HN and what the motivating factor is for people who do submit posts here -- they write well because they have an agenda and are using language as a tool to advance their agenda -- me too!

(side note: I'm still trying to figure out what the motivating factor is for Redditors though, if anyone knows, please let me know.)

(side note 2: I'm really surprised that in the book mentions, no one mentioned Elements of Style - it really is a big deal. Ask any Literature/English professor. I just re-ordered it myself for nostalgia sake and I'm always catching myself trying to remember the rules from it)

jnazarioonFeb 22, 2012

ahh ok. schools are pretty good at that, but i bet you knew that.

here's a coaching service (which, of course, costs money):

http://www.aliventures.com/coaching/

i found that one by googling for "writer coaching service -resume" (the last piece gets rid of the plethora of people who will only help you write a better resume).

have you studied Strunk's "Elements of Style"? well worth it if you have not. cheaper, too.

TerrettaonJune 12, 2021

Wonderful to academics? Yes, academics study what is, but at any given moment there are prescriptive rules and norms for what should be, Elements of Style if you will:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_prescription

Or even if you won’t:

https://www.chronicle.com/article/50-years-of-stupid-grammar...

Such take downs are often lamenting a lack of rule following in the style guides!

“What’s wrong is that the grammatical advice proffered in Elements is so misplaced and inaccurate that counterexamples often show up in the authors’ own prose on the very same page.”

combatentropyonSep 22, 2018

> Good programmers write good code. Great programmers write no code. Zen programmers delete code.

I guess then I have been a Zen programmer from the beginning. Maybe it was because first I was into writing, and my favorite book is the Elements of Style. I relish deleting code, but you have got to understand I'm not deleting features, security, or anything.

It is really hard to explain how it's possible to someone who has not known it first hand, how you can subtract things yet lose nothing --- or even gain something. The simplest example of how you can delete code and not affect features is deleting code that was commented out by the last hooligan, commented out because he did not use version control and was trying different ways to solve the problem. The next most obvious example is code that is never run: functions that are defined but never called or, trickier, branch conditions that will never be true. But most of all I guess I have just worked with a lot of people who subscribed to the copy-and-paste method of code re-use. It's easy to pull out the repetition into functions.

One of my favorite examples of less-is-more is outside the field of programming, in the field of sports cars. The Lotus Elise weighed 1,600 pounds, so even though its engine had just 118 horsepower, it could go 0 to 60 in 6 seconds. In constrast to heavier sports cars, who solved the speed problem with the more obvious solution of dropping in a bigger engine, the Lotus also had these advantages: more miles per gallon, faster braking, nimbler cornering. As the founder, Colin Chapman, said, "Adding power makes you faster on the straights. Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."

How do you shave weight while retaining rigidity? Through another minimalist technique: reducing pieces. The chassis was of one piece, a "monocoque." Since things break at joints, instead of reinforcing the joints, you just do away with them. Steve Jobs, another minimalist, used the same technique in MacBooks. By cutting them out of one piece of aluminum, the frame can be thinner and lighter yet still stronger than competitors.

erikbyeonJan 6, 2021

It is not measurable, unless you count adverbs and adjectives or things of that nature, but it can be critiqued.

George Orwell on prose: https://www.orwell.ru/library/essays/politics/english/e_poli....

Also, see Elements of Style.

A good story can be "written poorly," that's where prose quality comes into play. When you say written poorly it seems you are referring to narrative and structure--as you deemed it not entertaining--not prose.

andrewfongonSep 4, 2013

Lots of good responses here, but my 2 cents: Work on your writing. Aim for simplicity and clarity. Avoid words like "explicate" when "discuss" works just as well.

Students with strong STEM interests often undervalue good, simple writing. But learning to write is really about learning to communicate. And one of the most important skills for success, especially as a founder, is communication.

I recommend Strunk & White's Elements of Style as a quick guide to most of the things you need to know about writing.

ncmncmonJan 16, 2020

In parts of Bloomberg, as in apparently many other places, there is a cult around what Geoff Pullum calls "the nasty book", Elements of Style.

It is similarly full of ignorant proclamations that serve mainly to make people insecure about their communication skills.

Whenever I found one that didn't obviously belong to someone, I recycled it.

baneonJan 26, 2016

Some writers will say that the -s after Charles' is not necessary and that adding only the apostrophe (Charles' car) will suffice to show possession. Consistency is the key here: if you choose not to add the -s after a noun that already ends in s, do so consistently throughout your text. William Strunk's Elements of Style recommends adding the 's. (In fact, oddly enough, it's Rule Number One in Strunk's "Elementary Rules of Usage.") You will find that some nouns, especially proper nouns, especially when there are other -s and -z sounds involved, turn into clumsy beasts when you add another s: "That's old Mrs. Chambers's estate." In that case, you're better off with "Mrs. Chambers' estate."

jholmanonMay 28, 2020

Elements of Style is not authoritative. Widely cited, widely praised, widely criticized.

Find an author you enjoy, subject their work to an analysis strictly driven by Elements of Style, and you'll find they fail to measure up. Even if the book in question is Charlotte's Web, by the way.

I'm not saying the book has no value, but it's far from authoritative.

dragonwriteronJuly 4, 2020

I suspect that it loses some of the intended meaning of the original; while there are lots of things that Elements of Style suggests, the overwhelming thing that a reference to it communicates, to me at least, is concision. I don't know if its the only not-wrong thing in the work, but its certainly the only thing I've specifically retained from it, in any case, and when I've talked to others its been the main thing of value most have reported getting from it.

Actual usage and more substantive style I'd tend to use a more current and comprehensive style manual like Chicago, even before considering qualitative issues of the Elements relative to its time.

zimpenfishonJan 30, 2018

> Parallels Strunk & White's Elements of Style.

Although do bear in mind that some professional linguists (Geoff Pullum being the ur-example) consider EoS to be an abomination of ignorant claptrap.

RichardKainonOct 30, 2014

"Elements of Style" remains the best single volume guide to writing. Stephen King's "On Writing" is fun and a good follow up. I concur with the read great writing and practice a lot tips. But how to practice? It's old fashioned and slower, but try printing out what you're writing and read it aloud. Make edits in pen on the draft. To force the concision Elements recommends is to get a word count on your first draft and try to cut it down by 33 to 50%. Finally, ask friends for help editing. Keeping asking whoever is toughest on you.

Good luck!

dhimesonMay 20, 2015

Elements of Style is an excellent place to start. Yes, the academics and pros will debate its advice, as they do any "authority" (same thing with William Zinsser, author of "On Writing Well," who passed away recently), but for people who come from a non-writing background it provides a succinct and clear starting guide. As your skills improve so can your rules change.

For that it is a very good work.

hammockonAug 22, 2011

Start with Strunk and White, Elements of Style. Once you get that move on to literary devices. Try Mary Oliver, A Poetry Handbook, or Robert McKee, Story.

There are all kinds of business-y books out there about copywriting for email marketing etc, but you will never learn the fundamentals from them.

spodekonFeb 11, 2018

"Getting To Yes" https://www.amazon.com/Getting-Yes-Negotiating-Agreement-Wit...

I've given away more copies of that book than any other. Improves all relationships.

"Elements of Style" aka Strunk and White. https://www.amazon.com/Elements-Style-Fourth-William-Strunk/...

I'd prefer they not only read Elements of Style, but work on it.

bcookonApr 15, 2016

What caused you to see that; concerns for other English dialects, international/translatation, or something else?

I'm pretty ignorant, but I enjoy trying to misinterpret my own text, which is often easy.

It was either Kernighan or Ritchie that mentioned that every few years they read Strunk & White's Elements of Style to increase their ability to be understood and understand others.

CeriumonJune 5, 2017

Elements of Style, also referred to as "Strunk and White" is a gem of a style guide. It can be read every few years to get back on track.

mapsteronNov 20, 2016

Elements of Style. Strunk & White. But it is not technically a grammar textbook

spodekonOct 13, 2011

His great works had such amazing style -- simple, elegant, meaningful, effective. I think this sentence, which he not only co-authored but also executed on, summarizes it in plain English, all the more so when you read it from the small book in your hands.

"C is not a big language, and it is not well served by a big book."

These words have guided my writing as much as anything in Elements of Style.

mattiaskonNov 10, 2011

For anyone who writes (and these days who doesn't?) I highly recommend the classic "Elements of Style" by William Strunk. If you only read one book about writing this should be it.

http://www.bartleby.com/141/

Btw, I think it's more efficent to first write a "braindump" and then start editing, rather than reiterating a sentence a time. You'll remove and rework a lot of what you write but it's easier to get in the flow and just "get things done" before you start rewriting it.

SemiapiesonFeb 17, 2011

1) Again, the preposition isn't a problem.

2) Then use "whom" if you like. I really can't be bothered to care, as the purpose of language is communication, not structural pedantry. Remember your Elements of Style - "Break any of these rules sooner than say anything outright barbarous" - and note how even presumably well-educated people here find "whom" awkward and stilted in that usage.

ncmncmonOct 20, 2020

Whenever I find a copy of Elements of Style, I throw it away. I have deep-sixed at least four copies in the past five years.

Geoff Pullum, at Edinburgh, calls it "The Nasty Book", because it makes people needlessly insecure about their writing, and because its supposed rules are not followed by any great writer.

The most damning fact is that, when he produced the second edition after Strunk died, White made up a bunch more phony rules, and then went through Strunk's original text and doctored it to obey them. Then, he failed to obey them in his own text--frequently on the same page where he was advocating them.

There is a certain amount of correct advice, but it is the same as elsewhere, e.g.: "omit needless words". Did we need a book to tell us that?

But his victims love him.

kabdibonMay 12, 2020

Annie Dillard, Pilgrim at Tinker Creek and Holy the Firm. Dillard has a way with words that is both eloquent and a little violent, and she influenced how I write just as much as Strunk and White's Elements of Style.

Douglas Hofstadter's Godel, Escher, Bach for its captivating presentation of some very complicated ideas (at least to the 17 year old kid who read this for the first time). This book was published around the time that I was growing from hobby programming to writing software as a career, and it exposed me to non-trivial proofs, LISP, and recursion in general.

Vernor Vinge's The Peace War. It's a bit stupid, but . . . I want to make the tech in this book become reality :-) Bobbles are sheer fantasy, of course, but the Tinker tech stack would be a lot of fun.

kafkaesqueonAug 6, 2013

I'll dig through my boxes to find the one I referred to the most. I have the image of the front cover in my head, but not the name. It was something pretty generic, though.

But I should clarify I went to school in Canada.

All of my style guides were from small publishers and many were written by my instructors/professors.

We/I did use some international ones from time to time (some profs had preferences). These were:

(1) MLA Style Manual or MLA Handbook

(2) AP Stylebook

(3) New York Times Manual of Style and Usage

(4) Chicago Manual of Style

Now that I'm in the United States, I use (4) at work. They have an online version of their entire book (first 30 days free): http://www.chicagomanualofstyle.org/home.html

But to get back to The Elements of Style, it would almost be easier to look at what S&W recommend and see how writers write today, as you're most likely to find the answer right there in front of you.

Elements of Style was written in 1918. There have been all sorts of stylistic suggestions since then, depending on your field. The reason why we used more than one style guide at school was because neither can be said to be definitive, exhaustive or the 'best'. Some provided better explanations as to why certain styles were preferred.

SwellJoeonAug 8, 2016

I've read that, as well. Enjoyed it, but never think of it when I'm trying to name a great book for aspiring writers, and it really only covers an area (punctuation) that I don't find terribly challenging. I've been searching and reading reviews ever since reading omaranto's comment, and the market segment seems to be entirely cornered by Elements of Style. There's simply nothing in the same category, in terms of size, that is anywhere near as well-regarded as Elements. Even a book called How to Write Short is nearly three times as long.

I've (tried to) read many bigger books about style, usage, and grammar, of course, but I really would like a book I can plow through just before I sit down to write something large. Like, the day before NaNoWriMo starts, or before I embark on an editing pass of my company's documentation, just read it all in one sitting as a refresher on how to write clearly and effectively. I've always used Strunk and White for this purpose. I don't want to be a grammar scholar, I just want to write better and more clearly, and I think a lot of folks are in that position; which likely explains the enduring popularity of Strunk and White, despite its critics.

dansoonOct 30, 2014

My main profession has been a writer...and since joining HN, I've probably written 10x more words on these comment boards than for any other forum or published medium. I can't say that I'm actively trying to practice...but discussion here is (usually) so enjoyable that it's easy to get in the habit...just like playing recreational soccer for fun can often be a better way to get in shape than a dedicated running regimen.

If English and writing is not something you've been able to devote yourself to, I would recommend something in addition to frequent commenting: pick up a copy of "The Elements of Style" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Elements_of_Style) and as you write comments on HN (or blog posts)...pick a rule in Elements of Style and focus on the technique mentioned. For example, rule 12, Prefer the specific to the general, the definite to the vague, the concrete to the abstract.

e.g. "He showed satisfaction as he took possession of his well-earned reward" versus "He grinned as he pocketed the coin".

Look over your comment and revise it according to the technique. Rinse, repeat, etc.

Elements of Style is an old book, but I still find it to be great advice. I've thought about making such a book for programming in a high level language (I know such a book exists for C/C++)...because good style can really influence good function.

Also, assuming that you're using a throwaway profile for this comment, make a profile with your real name and identity. This has been discussed on HN before, but being accountable to your identity is a nice push to make you even more attentive to your quality of writing.

hkmurakamionJune 9, 2014

"Elements of Style" by Strunk (Not Strunk and White) is in the public domain.

http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/37134

ncmncmonMay 13, 2020

Whenever I find a copy of Elements of Style, I chuck it in the trash.

Geoff Pullum, a revered linguist, calls it "the Nasty Book". He explained, in an essay that is easy to find online, how its chief effect is to make people insecure about their writing. The book's message is, "Here are the rules. You will have to break them to write well. But you aren't good enough to know when." In fact the rules are not rules anywhere but in the imagination of White and his acolytes. No admired writer of English knows them, never mind obeys them.

When White put out the second edition after Strunk died, he made up a bunch more rules, the went back and doctored Strunk's original text to follow his new rules.

But he didn't check his own text. Typically he breaks his own rules on the same page where he is promoting them.

The book presents a profoundly ignorant picture ofthe English language. You cannot become a good writer shackled to Strunk and White.

gdlonOct 28, 2010

The traditional answer here would probably be to recommend the book "Elements of Style" by Strunk and White, so I'll do that in case you're not already aware of it. It's short, easy to read, and focuses on good style and common grammar mistakes. It's common as a high school or college text here (USA). From your question you seem pretty fluent already (your intro feels native or very near) so it should be well-suited for you.

rhymenocerosonAug 1, 2019

Judicious editing.

I think the Blaise Pascal quote about not having the time is relevant; making things concise takes more effort, particularly if you are not already in the habit of doing so already. Start with your communication, remove redundant or unnecessary words, then think about ways to compact things down even further by removing or rephrasing sentences.

Going through "Elements of Style" by Strunk & White wouldn't hurt too.

heimatauonNov 30, 2020

So, I struggled with writing for most of my life (33 now). But around 4 years ago, I took a college 'composition' course...for the fourth time. I failed it three times previously. I had to pass the class this time because I had a mission to get my degree. This class stood in my way. I was fortunate enough to have a great teacher for both level 1 and level 2, I passed both with an A&B respectively. Surprisingly enough, I learned that I already had good habits (journaling, rereading old entries, lack of judgment when writing, comfortable with numerous edits spread overtime). I discovered this through anon blogging and my personal journal after I dropped out of college after my third failing. So, I fell into the good habits but they are practical. They just take time and continuous practice.

So, I said all this, in a rambling way, to say that you can do this without paying others. Just be disciplined about it. Maybe take the 100 day challenge to blogging. Post it anon, if you're worried about criticism.

Good luck. I also second nondeveloper's two book recommends (Elements of Style and On Writing Well), if you need a lot of helpful advice.

devnonymousonJune 21, 2018

Since you're struggling with writing I'd highly recommend 'Elements of style' by William Strunk. I'm surprised nobody recommended this yet.

http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/37134

Quite a few practical tips in there in terms of sentence structure and style.

Just as a reference point, from the wikipedia page, "Time named in 2011 as one of the 100 best and most influential books written in English since 1923"

Also as an aside, this book also inspired the name of the programming tome 'Elements of Programming Style' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Elements_of_Programming_St...

ericbonSep 19, 2007

How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie. It is arguably the most useful book I've ever read, albeit with the most embarassing title.

As inklesspen mentioned, Elements of Style is a must.

Code Complete and the Mythical Man Month by Fred Brooks. Timeless coding wisdom.

For a laugh, Catch-22 by Joseph Heller, or Hitchhiker's Guide.

Body Language, Julius Fast. Kitschy but fascinating insights into body language.

Fabric of the Cosmos, Brian Greene. Brian is a fluke of nature--a physicist who can explain things realy well!

Anything by Phillip K. Dick. Sci-fi stories that make you think.

bloggergirlonNov 25, 2012

I'll add to this list my all-time favorite writing companion: Virginia Tufte's "Grammar As Style". It's been out of print forever, which is tragic, and, when you can find it, it usually sells for over $100 - even in rough shape. "Artful Sentences" is meant to replace "Grammar As Style", but I prefer the original. If you want to tie all the rules together so you can understand why we even have grammar in the first place and how truly magical grammar can be to shaping a sentence or paragraph, track down this book.

Interesting: Virginia Tufte is the mother of data visualization guru Edward Tufte.

(Other good books for writers and writers-in-training: "Bird by Bird" by Anne Lamont, Stephen King's "On Writing" and a collection of letters on writing by F. Scott Fitzgerald, also called "On Writing". Oh, and please don't hate on White's "Elements of Style" --- it may be old, but it's foundational.)

mkr-hnonJune 27, 2012

edit: I should be less eager to click buttons

----

Where do I begin…

'spelling of conscientious'

This would be covered in the first editing pass when I turn the spell checker on. I don't see what this is meant to demonstrate. Even good writers have trouble remembering how some words are spelled.

'explain oxford comma'

What's the point of this?

'repeating a tongue twister; I like the “Betty Botter bought a bit of butter” one.'

What's the point of this?

'Questions about rules in ‘Elements of Style‘'

Elements of Style is not a rulebook. It's a stylebook.

'A few puzzles to test their creativity.'

A good writer is like a good designer. You either like their style or you don't. If you don't, you'd never ask them in for the interview. A quick writing sample is the only test of creativity you need.

'More spellings and grammar questions.'

A writing sample is all you need to assess grammar and spelling competence. My grammers is fine, but I couldn't recite rules and practices in a test.

'Some domain related question, for e.g. ask sports writer, the dates when the last football world cup was played.'

A good writer knows how to research. If you need an x writer for some cultural reason then you'd ask for that in the ad. This is a poor filter since it doesn't tell you how well a writer can write on the subject.

'Question on lexical roots of some words.'

Is this an English class or an interview?

I would show myself the door pretty quickly and advise all my writer friends not to consider your company. Your interview questions display a serious ignorance of the craft of writing. Save yourself some headaches and ask the best writer in your office to hire other writers. The sort questions you ask are easily rehearsed by a bad writer with good memory.

vkdeltaonNov 14, 2010

You might want to read "Elements of Style - by William Strunk"

Amazon link: http://www.amazon.com/Elements-Style-Fourth-William-Strunk/d...

greyboyonNov 26, 2012

Here is what she said:

bloggergirl 21 hours ago | link [dead]

I'll add to this list my all-time favorite writing companion: Virginia Tufte's "Grammar As Style". It's been out of print forever, which is tragic, and, when you can find it, it usually sells for over $100 - even in rough shape. "Artful Sentences" is meant to replace "Grammar As Style", but I prefer the original. If you want to tie all the rules together so you can understand why we even have grammar in the first place and how truly magical grammar can be to shaping a sentence or paragraph, track down this book.

Interesting: Virginia Tufte is the mother of data visualization guru Edward Tufte.

(Other good books for writers and writers-in-training: "Bird by Bird" by Anne Lamont, Stephen King's "On Writing" and a collection of letters on writing by F. Scott Fitzgerald, also called "On Writing". Oh, and please don't hate on White's "Elements of Style" --- it may be old, but it's foundational.)

kthejoker2onMar 8, 2021

I think the simplest response I can give to this is the "above defition" is of a pattern language, not a pattern.

A pattern language is an organized and coherent set of patterns. They are developed holistically to work in relation with each other. They're designed to be combined together - as sequences, in parallel, as contrasts - and also to be as "platform-agnostic" as possible.

For example, Alexander's book helpfully includes a ton of points on how to combine the various patterns in the book, and a healthy "see also:" section to get alternative ideas or just areas of overlap between them all.

And the patterns in the book are about the physical, environmental, and social needs of humans (the problems) and how they can be met trough architecture and infrastructure.

It's very distinct from just "a list of patterns." They're always described in service to the whole, in relation to the others.

For the English language, I would say Aristotle's Rhetoric is closest in spirit; whereas Elements of Style is clearly more a "list of patterns"

Other "pattern language"-style books I can think of are The Prince by Machiavelli; Capital by Marx; 22 Immutable Laws of Marketing by Ries and Trout; Diffusion of Innovations by Rogers; and High Output Management by Andrew Grove.

I would also say the original C2 Wiki comes closest to creating a "bottoms-up" pattern language. Here's the entry on A Pattern Language - https://wiki.c2.com/?PatternLanguage

But these books aren't explicitly set up as pattern language books - nor are many others. Very few books (not even the GoF) are put together so well and as comprehensively as A Pattern Language. It's truly a masterpiece.

pizzaonJuly 20, 2012

Just read Strunk and White's Elements of Style.

jonnathansononFeb 12, 2014

Agreed. We could point out that, for the last 30-odd years, Strunk and White's "Elements of Style" has served as the homogenizing cudgel used to beat every writer's voice into submission. But, by and large, the influence of EoS has been a good thing. It's helped a lot more people than it's hurt.

Serious and professional writers generally write for two things: clarity and insight. Stylistic preferences shouldn't stamp out a writer's ability to make a good point. They should help him express that point more clearly. That's usually to the writer's (and readers') advantage.

Writers who break the rules, and who know what they're doing, are fine. Most rule-breakers don't know what they're doing, however. For every David Foster Wallace, there are a thousand writers who aren't aware they're hard for most people to read.

cpetersoonJune 10, 2013

I was impressed by your clear writing. Some minor suggestions since you asked for feedback: <:)

* "mandatory requirement" is redundant. If something's not mandatory, then it's not a requirement! :)

* "Many admit that as much as Java is not much fun to write code with, the JVM is a different story.": This sentence is awkward. Perhaps something like: "Many admit Java code is not much fun to write, but the JVM doesn't limit your choice of language."

* "Scala shares the Java Technology Stack, and knowing Java is a big plus when learning Scala, especially due to the common library ecosystem, and the insights into the JVM workings.": This sentence is awkward. It could be simplified into something like: "Knowing Java is a big plus when learning Scala because the languages share a common library ecosystem."

If you are interested in more resources about English writing, I recommend Joseph M. Williams' Style: Toward Clarity and Grace. Strunk & White's Elements of Style is a classic (and short), but some people dislike it.

kinshoonMay 13, 2015

I'll be perfectly honest...I found this article to be not only pointless, but full of false ideas as well. I'd rather read Elements of Style all over again than read that poor excuse of an essay.

One thing really irked me...the author states that initially "...death was a failure state because it required little explanation and was easy to quantify from a programming and visual standpoint."

Bullshit. Death is a failure state because it's a natural mode of failure for a hero on an adventure trying to fight off a horde of koopas/moblins/thugs/zombies/aliens/etc. Developers used death not as an easy way to signify failure, but as a sensible way to signify failure.

Sure, he can bring up games like Super Dodge Ball to illustrate his point that the mechanism of death was sometimes forced into the game to convey failure scenarios, but then what about games like Duck Hunt, Sim City, and Super Tecmo Bowl? In not one of those games did your avatar 'die' in any failure scenario. Failure was denoted in a multitude of other ways in those games.

klodolphonOct 6, 2016

> After a few tries, starting an essay or post should be automatic.

That's my experience for the kind of essays they expect in college, but I when I want to write something for public consumption it's going to take more effort. The coherent essay that you learned to write and high school and served well in college may be informative, but it's still going to be boring. Capturing interest is still hard even once you have the mechanics of essay structure down.

Or at least it is for me. I'm less than fond of Strunk & White. These days I'd recommend Style: Lessons in Clarity and Grace over Elements of Style.

As for the "hi", that actually does serve a purpose in one-way mediums. It takes time for our brains to adapt to the speech of a new speaker, so it's common to miss the first thing that someone says. But if everyone says "hi" first, then your brain has a split-second to adapt to new voices before hearing something new and interesting.

SwellJoeonAug 7, 2016

Is there a more correct book that is similarly concise and similarly well-written? I would love to read it, if so.

Edit: I found this blog post that lists some alternatives http://thewritingresource.net/2011/09/22/forget-everything-s...

About half of the titles are punny or plays on words, which I'm somewhat suspicious of (even though I like puns). And, all are at least twice the size of Strunk and White. I understand that some subjects are bigger than a ~100 page book can cover, but despite having spent a lot of my life writing (and having published a book), I've never been able to plod through a big grammar book. I can read Elements of Style in an afternoon without feeling like it's a chore. As noted in some of the reviews, if it's wrong it's not worth even that much effort. But, I never thought it was predominantly wrong or predominantly misleading. And, it usually reminds me about one or more of my negative writing habits, and I correct it for a while until I forget again.

clockwork-devonOct 19, 2020

Nothing has impacted my writing more than that book. There are several versions now, the one I have is titled "Style: The Basics of Clarity and Grace".

I chose it over White's book because of this passage from Clear and Simple as the Truth:

> The best-known teachers of practical style are Strunk and White, in their ubiquitous Elements of Style. The best teachers of practical style are Joseph Williams and Gregory Colomb, in Williams’s Style: Toward Clarity and Grace and a series of academic articles and technical reports.
Williams and Colomb present an incomparably deeper and more orderly treatment of practical style. The style they present is consistent and mature; it makes decisions about all the major questions that define a style, and is fully developed.

I almost can’t overstate how much it’s changed how I read and write. Before that book, some writing just felt “clear” and other writing didn’t, but I couldn’t explain why. Now it’s much easier to see how that sense of clarity is created. Even though I don't write for a living and mainly do technical write ups, it was easily worth the time investment.

This video is also good. It has a ton of interesting points, but the part about creating instability in your writing I found particularly useful.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtIzMaLkCaM&ab_channel=UChic...

plinkplonkonApr 8, 2010

"if your'e using it as a noun, by the way, you are wrong - I think student needs to be possessive."

Exactly. And you need an apostrophe to indicate that if you want your readers to parse the sentence properly.

"I saw an EE student's C Code once" (student is singular) or " I saw some EE students' C code once" (students are plural). I've seen some grammar books recommend an extra s anyway for the latter case as in "I saw some students's C code once" though I suspect that is unused these days. [1]

"why are we attacking people's grammar. It's irrelevant to the discussion!"

This.

Speaking or writing 100% grammatically correct English (assuming such a beast exists, which is a separate discussion) or making a typo here and there is irrelevant to someone's competence as a programmer.

Using minor grammatical errors to judge people as incompetent is, at the least, foolish.

I don't think strcredzero is incompetent because he missed an apostrophe or wrote an ill formed sentence. But by the same token I don't think Aditya is incompetent as a programmer (which was the topic under discussion btw - EE students being good programmers or not) just because he said "lot competent". Give the guy a break.

[1] From Strunk's "Elements of Style"

"Form the possessive singular of nouns with 's.

Follow this rule whatever the final consonant. Thus write,

Charles's friend
Burns's poems
the witch's malice

This is the usage of the United States Government Printing Office and of the Oxford University Press."

morisyonMay 30, 2013

Nope. I do regret not reading more, but have found that your local library (and local college library) has what you need, when you need it, 99% of the time.

There are a few treasured texts I keep (Elements of Style, a really good programming book written by a professor) that I kept, but I ditched 95% of them and never missed a beat.

ekpyroticonOct 12, 2009

'Elements of Style', Strunk & White.

It has changed my life. For the last two years I have endeavoured to simplify my thoughts/ideas, so they can be communicated precisely. It's hard, painful work.

That aim has recoloured my being: music; literature; art. Philip Glass. Hemingway. Mondrian.

I am not the same person.

_deliriumonDec 30, 2012

The bigger problem imo isn't so much that language changes, but that many of the rules enforced here (and in some older style guides) never existed to begin with, in the sense that not even elite or literary usage followed them, let alone common usage. There was an unfortunate period in English grammar, around the late 19th and early/mid 20th centuries, where grammarians tried to "purify" the language with invented rules, often modeled on Latin grammar. Strunk & White's Elements of Style is one of the offenders from that era that sadly lingers on in reprintings.

A tool based on rules that bear some closer resemblance to actual English grammar would be interesting to me. Maybe something that checked against the recommendations in a recent edition of the Chicago Manual of Style. The technical aspects of this tool don't seem hugely tied to the specific constructs it currently flags, so perhaps that could be done (though the source is not available, so perhaps not).

munmaekonOct 6, 2019

My opinion: never look at TOEFL or any test for how to actually speak a language. They're always out of date.

English doesn't really have an entity that dictates "rules". The guidelines vary between dialects, so I can only speak about American English...

You can read the Oxford Style Manual or The Chicago Manual of Style for reference, but sometimes people disagree. Previously people looked at Strunk & White's Elements of Style, etc.

---

On this particular issue, "they" is fine as singular, and is being used like that very frequently these days.

RadixonApr 2, 2009

In 1882, fifth graders read these authors in their Appleton School Reader: William Shakespeare, Henry Thoreau, George Washington, Sir Walter Scott, Mark Twain, Benjamin Franklin, Oliver Wendell Holmes, John Bunyan, Daniel Webster, Samuel Johnson, Lewis Carroll, Thomas Jefferson, Ralph Waldo Emerson, and others like them.

Since you are connected to teaching home schooling can you tell me why we don't teach like the above now? I read George Orwells Politics and the English Language and really enjoyed it. I don't see why I wasn't given that essay and a copy of Elements of Style then told to write. With enough practice I expect anyone would write well.

So, is there a reason school is not taught in the old way? [edit: That is, is there any reason to believe that any of the people who influence state curriculum just want "to produce docile factory workers"?]

hgaonOct 29, 2010

As gdl notes, your written English is very good: there's two non-idiomatic usages (was in "was living abroad" and texts in "writing english texts") and in your previous comment (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1683335) I simply can't tell your not an native English speaker (well, "landmark" is probably an incorrect usage since by definition it doesn't sound like you have been or can be very influential).

Elements of Style is the first book everyone suggests, although I didn't find it all that useful when I got around to buying it. I'd suggest checking it out and then later getting more prescriptive books.

While I'm not sure I'd recommend it as a second or even a fourth book, I'm rather fond of the rather old fashioned (OK, it's a century old...) and most certainly not American The King's English: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_King%27s_English

There's an on-line copy of the 2nd edition linked in the above that should give you an idea of if and when you want to try it; at the very least you should try this bit right now: http://www.bartleby.com/116/101.html (well, I love it...).

My copy is this recent printing of the 3rd edition: http://www.amazon.com/Kings-English-3rd-H-Fowler/dp/B0015NYN...

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